Season 10 Ep.4 / I Can Fix That!

Alex (00:02.99)

Well, we're back with our season where we're encouraging people to do as we say and not as we do. And Brenda, I don't know. I think this has been a little bit fun. It's like confession is good for the soul, right? So it's been fun to share the things that we've messed up.

Brenda (00:19.279)

Well, one of the most fun things for me today is Malia's comment to us. These were all supposed to be like 20 minute segments. And she said that we've given a lot of entertainment value because of the declaration we've made that these are going to be short. just right there, I want to say that these were intended to be short, but they're turning out to be a little bit longer.

Alex (00:27.309)

Yeah.

Alex (00:34.378)

Hahaha!

Alex (00:40.396)

They are shorter than the other podcast that we've done.

Brenda (00:45.189)

Well, yes, Alex, we're going to go with that. They are shorter, but anyhow, we've certainly been just having some some fun talking about these issues. Looking back, thinking about thank God the growth that the Lord has given us and continues to give us in our lives.

Alex (00:59.276)

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

So the purpose of this podcast season is to inspire people that they can jump in and engage in personal ministry because we've already made the mistakes. There's probably not a mistake they can make that we haven't made. And we want to inspire them that if you wait till you have it figured out, you'll never start. And today the mistake we want to tackle is I can fix that, which is really tempting to think when we go into personal ministry is to think that we're doing it so we

Brenda (01:19.537)

That's right.

Alex (01:31.924)

can help fix people, fix their problems, fix their relationships. Instead, we really want to talk about the difference between giving advice and facilitating growth because when we go in with a mindset of we can fix it, we're giving advice, we're telling somebody what to do, giving a solution, directing them towards a specific course of action. And we do it because it's faster and it's easier for us. We want to resolve the attention in us and we want to resolve attention

Brenda (01:57.903)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (02:01.848)

for them. Or maybe we do it because we think we really have the answer. Like it's worked for us so we know how to do it. And we may do it because we just want to help because we see a need and we want to alleviate pain. But we want to focus today on facilitating growth and helping a person develop biblical knowledge, skill, which is with this biblical knowledge and skill together is really what wisdom is. We want people to develop self awareness and confidence.

Brenda (02:06.635)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (02:31.728)

so that they can navigate their challenges interdependently with God and with others.

Brenda (02:37.807)

Yeah, and I think we're all familiar with the analogy. You know, you can give a fish versus teaching a person to fish. And it really just shows the importance of supporting and strengthening someone in their knowledge and skills or their wisdom to engage God themselves for comfort and change and not always having to rely on other people rather than just providing kind of that temporary or immediate solution. And I was thinking just this week I met with this precious young

Alex (02:44.504)

Yeah.

Brenda (03:07.821)

couple who right in front of me are having this argument about whether or not they can afford to go on a vacation. And it's getting pretty pretty heated there because the wife really wants to go and she wants a really fancy and nice vacation and the guys think in a week in Gatlinburg, know, should should be good enough. And, you know, I could have just said, well, hey, let's just pull out your finances and let's just see whether or not you can go to the all exclusive or to go to Gatlinburg. And that'll settle the issue forever and ever. And you can go and have this wonderful vacation together.

Alex (03:14.274)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (03:31.84)

Right. Right.

Brenda (03:37.743)

But the issue was so much bigger than the vacation. It really, as I was listening to them, and of course I've gotten to sit with them and get to know them, it was about what each of them values. It's about their past experience and what their families did and what they brought in as priorities. It was about, you know, their spending habits. One's a spender, one's a saver. It was about whether or not they understood biblical principles for finances and even principles of work versus rest and relaxation.

Alex (03:41.485)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (03:48.46)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (04:00.183)

Hmm.

Alex (04:07.447)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (04:07.507)

You know, we needed to talk about how do you sacrificially walk out in love when you have disagreements, right? Walk out love and disagreements. And then learning how to communicate and stay relational instead of attacking one another, getting on the same page. I mean, just from this one little simple instance, we can just see that there was so much opportunity for growth in their relationship over this seemingly small problem that if I had just jumped in and said, I can fix that. Show me your bank account. You can only afford to go to Gatlinburg.

Alex (04:13.932)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (04:23.82)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (04:34.368)

Right? Yeah.

Brenda (04:37.497)

your trip, have fun. We would have missed out on so much else. so the dangers or some of the pitfalls we want to talk about, and I can fix that.

You know, I think that when we are quick to give advice or directly solve a person's problem or when a person's just coming to seek that, it's a short-sightedness on our part and their part. We gotta play the long game with people. Like we really want transformation, not just these quick fixes. And if we don't have the long game in view, if we're only looking for those quick fixes or to give quick advice, then a lot of times what happens is we actually, you know, hinder somebody's growth and development.

Alex (05:01.484)

Right. Yes.

Alex (05:20.034)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, one of the ways that their growth and development can be hindered is it creates this unhealthy dependency, you know on us because they they're looking to us for the quick solution to resolve the tension to resolve the conflict and They're not growing in their relationship with the Lord. So we encourage people this time. We're to give it little kind of solution oriented Direction that instead of just going to the quick fix to move in and ask open-ended questions

Because those open-ended questions are going to unearth some of the things you just mentioned in your example with the couple like how they're viewing compromise and what some of the heart issues are underneath the issue that's presenting itself. So we might ask questions like what do you think is the best way forward? What options have you considered here? How do you feel about this situation to be able to get underneath the surface of the issue and be able to allow them to

see their own hearts and be able to arrive at a solution for themselves.

Brenda (06:27.949)

And I think even in the example that I just gave, if I can help them learn wisdom, skill, and knowledge, then that's going to transfer into all kinds of differences and conflict they have, right? And really and truly, sometimes people come and they just want to know if they can win. Like, will you be on my side? Because they just want to win the argument.

Alex (06:42.412)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (06:49.454)

so much in marriage counseling. Yes.

Brenda (06:53.137)

Right, so we definitely have to be aware of that and try to step away from that, particularly in things that the Bible doesn't speak clearly to, like where you're to go on vacation. If all the decisions were just so black and white, it'd make it so easy. Another, I just think, pitfall, if we rush in and think, I can fix that, is it's going to undermine the confidence of the person you're talking to. You know, if a person always receives answers instead of being guided to find their own way,

Alex (06:58.856)

Mm-hmm. Right. You're right.

Alex (07:06.861)

Right?

Alex (07:14.082)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (07:17.922)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (07:23.191)

They may begin to doubt their own problem-solving abilities, the wisdom that God has given to them, their ability to discern what the Holy Spirit, how He's leading them. And we want to build confidence in their relationship with God. We want to build confidence that they can follow Jesus, that they can discern God's will for their lives for simple and complex issues. And so, I just think about a few ways that we try to do this. We want to help somebody know how to discern God's will.

Alex (07:39.938)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (07:52.963)

By pushing them toward dependent and humble prayer, you know, are they aware of God's presence? Are they seeking his goodness? Are they humbly making petitions? Asking him for which way to go. Are they searching the word? Are there commands or precepts or promises of Scripture that kind of frame their situation that they can go ahead and be extrapolating to have some some knowledge there? I think looking at Providence or how God is directing through his care and circumstances so often

Alex (07:55.916)

Hmm.

Brenda (08:22.867)

in those are things that we don't know as we're sitting and talking with someone and they have all of this understanding of how God has been working in the past and the present that comes to bear maybe on whether God is leading them to the right or to the left, right? Seeking wise counsel from others is another way that they can begin to reinforce, that they can begin, God can begin to reinforce his counsel to them. I think about the internal witness of

Alex (08:47.138)

grow.

Alex (08:51.118)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (08:52.947)

of the Spirit, know, the Holy Spirit bears witness to God's Word and God's ways in our lives. And so if you're walking in a way and you don't have any peace about it, I would say, you know, take a second and step back and go back to some of these other ways. So, you know, I think that when we look at not undermining somebody's confidence, we have to be patient with them. We have to be patient for their growth because growth is going to take time. But allowing them to adapt

Alex (09:06.776)

Right.

Alex (09:18.06)

Right. Yeah.

Brenda (09:22.707)

the challenges will foster true transformation.

Alex (09:25.826)

Yeah, I think we have to be patient with them and we have to encourage them to be patient with themselves because developing these muscles of dependence on God, his spirit, his word, other people take time. I think maybe one of the motivations we didn't mention of why this is hard is because often people want a quick fix, right? They want the magic pill, the magic bullet that's going to make it all better. So we need to encourage patience in ourselves and in them.

Brenda (09:45.488)

Right.

Alex (09:54.626)

Because if we go to that quick fix, it also, one of the other dangers is it doesn't address the root issues. And we stay on a surface level and we're not addressing the problems at the deeper emotional, psychological or behavioral pattern level. And so we need to be willing to allow.

ask those questions and allow those heart issues to begin to reveal themselves and encourage people in self-reflection because as they explore their own story, their own emotions, thoughts, patterns and motivations, then they're going to be able hopefully to again learn to fish and not just be fed for the day. They're going to be able to carry that, those skills into other problems that

they face so that their dependence on us will decrease.

Brenda (10:49.903)

Yeah. Well, I think another issue if we're quick to rush in and fix is that we may have the wrong fix.

Alex (10:58.124)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brenda (11:00.177)

because we could be inaccurate or misguided. Every person's situation is very different and sometimes direct advice, especially given too quickly, may not fully consider all the aspects of their situation. And I really think this is a real big one. We have to be careful. I know I am still very prone to do this, especially when I feel myself feeling very strongly about what

Alex (11:29.55)

Yes,

Brenda (11:30.231)

to protect someone or wanting to step in with someone. And so I was thinking this week I had a precious friend of mine who sent me a text message. She's in a very, very difficult situation with her her grown children and something had happened and she wanted to know what to do. And my initial text I wrote, I would do da da da da da da da. And then thankfully the Holy Spirit stopped me and I just realized that there is so much

Alex (11:51.314)

Shit.

Brenda (12:00.083)

even though I know her situation, I know it on a 30,000 foot level. I don't walk daily with her. I don't walk daily with her girls. I don't know all that's going on. And I realized at that point, I better tread very, very lightly because I may be giving very inaccurate or misguided counsel here because I'm moving in very quickly. And so I ended up just tweaking the text a little bit and saying, here are a few ways you might consider moving forward.

Alex (12:29.246)

You

Brenda (12:29.917)

want to encourage you to really rely on the Holy Spirit and the counsel of other people who are also walking more closely with you. Right? And I mean, that's just good for her and that's good for me as well. So I think one of the ways that we can also, you know, I guess get around this.

Alex (12:37.92)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (12:43.956)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brenda (12:53.113)

tendency or impulsivity to want to give a quick fix would be to be good listeners, right? Put on our listening skills, reflect their thoughts back to them, rephrase their ideas, and help people weigh their options. And know, texting, admittedly, is just not the best place to do that. So think we've said this in another one of our podcasts, but when we get into difficult situations, we really, really need to especially make sure that

Alex (13:12.898)

Right.

Brenda (13:23.027)

that we are having because even in a text message, you know, I might say one thing and it could be interpreted completely different. So just just another warning. think text is great for encouragement. Lots of encouragement. Great for prayer. Great for maybe asking one question so you can encourage and you know, but when you try to get in these complex situations and people want to do that a lot, Alex, because people are on the go when we find that texting is hey, I'm going to I'm going to tell you this terrible situation that happened in a text.

Alex (13:35.948)

Hmm.

Brenda (13:53.02)

and I want you to tell me what I need to do and I'm saying don't touch that. Don't just not fix it. Don't touch it.

Alex (13:55.404)

Right? Mm-hmm.

Right?

Yeah, because we're we're we we are almost encouraged by the medium itself to do a quick fix, right? Like because texting is short and to the point that we're kind of encouraged to go there. And so that goes back to our boundaries discussion of putting boundaries on when we'll text. But maybe we didn't even say in that podcast what we'll text about. Like I think I said, one of the strategies I use is, hey, we need to talk about this when we're face to face because I, you know, I

Brenda (14:08.869)

Yep. Yep.

Brenda (14:24.623)

Yep.

Alex (14:31.748)

cannot explore this issue fully. And sometimes we give that misguided advice based on the fact that we are misguided. We don't understand the situation fully. Sometimes we give them misguided advice because they don't fully present the issue and we're giving advice on something that we don't actually know the whole story about. So it's actually a good warning to just remember that I think

Brenda (14:44.155)

bright.

Brenda (14:49.155)

Yes, right.

Brenda (14:56.753)

Yeah.

Alex (15:01.648)

Sometimes people want the quick fix like we said and maybe not even consciously aren't giving us all the information but nevertheless we're not being presented all the information and we're weighing in on something that we really don't know enough about.

Brenda (15:16.921)

Yeah. Yep.

Alex (15:20.012)

So the last danger is that it shifts responsibility away from the person. And I think we're saying that in all of these points that really any kind of counseling, personal ministry should be empowering the person that we're talking to to take responsibility for their life, for their choices. And we don't want them to become passive recipients of solutions. even if somebody wants you to solve the problem for them, resist, resist, resist, because they need to

Brenda (15:47.857)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (15:49.918)

exercise these muscles for themselves and what we need to be able to do is support them and encourage them and not direct them, validate their feelings, maybe sit with them and their feelings. A lot of times it means sitting in the tension with them of the choice and recognizing that you know I remember when someone said that when we make a choice we necessarily lose something we have to grieve another choice and sometimes people don't want to make

a choice because they don't want to have to face the grief of letting go of their other options. And so we need to be willing to sit in that tension and that grief with them and encourage and support them as they make their decision.

Brenda (16:33.883)

Yeah, I think about my dad right now with my mother's having memory issues and they're having to move. And I just think about sometimes there is no good option, right? And so we've been walking with him and wrestling with him and praying for him and encouraging him. You he knows he knows all the biblical principles of caring for and is committed to my mom and her care. But it's just so stinking hard and to say you need to stay in your home or you need to leave to go to a living arrangement, assisted living.

Alex (16:41.74)

Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (16:51.97)

Right.

Alex (16:59.651)

Right.

Brenda (17:04.007)

is not a decision that we can make for him. And I would also say that if we did make it for him, then one, we may choose the wrong thing for him. And two, even if we choose the right thing, he may come back, he could come back and be very angry, even if he made the right decision because he felt forced into it. So I just think all the way around, we just need to remember, I guess, in the bigger picture that when we are working with people, this is a partnership.

Alex (17:14.574)

you

Alex (17:20.076)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Brenda (17:33.749)

We're not sitting with people as these experts, but we're walking arm in arm hand in hand. We're partnership partnering with them and their relationship with Jesus that Jesus is the friend and counselor that they need most of all and he is going to be faithful to lead them and to guide them and we've seen that my goodness, I'm in a situation right now where

Alex (17:45.038)

Hmm.

Brenda (17:57.253)

woman is in a really difficult situation and just had to ask her husband to move out and I have just been astonished to see all the ways that God is showing up to confirm that decision and to support her in that decision. But you know if if we had rushed that if I had said you need to do it if I had said you don't need to do it I mean she would have just missed out so many opportunities to grow in confidence and her and her ability to hear from the Lord and the blessings of other people and now seeing the transformation that

that God is beginning to put in place as she's stepping out in faith. And faith is just making space for God to work. And we can't do that for somebody else. They're gonna have to have faith and step out and have the confidence to know that they're gonna be held in the decision that they make.

Alex (18:29.454)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (18:34.178)

Yeah.

Alex (18:45.262)

Yeah, that takes us into kind of what we need to the truth we need to ground ourselves into counter.

our desire to want to fix that. And you're touching on some of those things already. The first one being that we have to trust that the Holy Spirit is active in the person we're talking to and as well as in us and that we can trust the Holy Spirit to lead and to guide them. Like we don't have this corner on the Holy Spirit, but to really remember. And there are times when I feel pushed to solve a problem when I'll say to someone, I trust the Holy Spirit in you to lead and

idea just to help orient them to that truth.

Brenda (19:23.409)

That's right.

you

No, I think that's so good. I think we have to often reorient people and ourselves because in that statement you're reorienting them and you're reorienting yourself as well, which is really helpful. Yeah, and I think that, you know, we also need to remember and we need to let other people remember that God is not sitting in heaven waiting for them to make a mistake so he can just throw the book at them, right? Rather, he wants them to learn to exercise faith muscles as they make decisions in unclear areas. And I often tell people

Alex (19:30.776)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. True.

Alex (19:45.92)

Right. Right.

Brenda (19:56.675)

we may not always know the quote-unquote right decision, but we make the best decision and trust God in it.

Alex (20:04.63)

All right. Yeah.

Yeah, and to just further that point, need to remember, we need to remind them and us that resting in the gospel means that they can make mistakes and they're still going to be loved, they're still going to be accepted. Like you said, God's not waiting to zap them. He is there to lead and guide and comfort and that oftentimes they just have to make the best decision with the information they have right now. They're not going to get more information.

Brenda (20:33.969)

That's it.

Alex (20:36.522)

They're not going to get all knowledge to be able to make this decision. that I say to people a lot, okay, God says without faith, it's impossible to please him. That means if we work that verse around, we flip it around, faith pleases them. So moving forward in faith pleases God apart from what you actually decide the act of moving forward in faith is pleasing to him.

Brenda (20:51.729)

That's right.

Brenda (21:01.753)

Yeah, and maybe we would say that is your best decision.

Alex (21:04.47)

Yes. Yeah.

Brenda (21:04.857)

It's the one done in faith. It's the decision made in faith. Instead of trying to find the right, just that very right answer. And then we just could summarize by saying we are walking with people, not telling people where to go. And this again allows them to take responsibility for their lives. It puts the ownership and stewardship where it needs to be. And honestly, that pressure is part of what forces spiritual growth. If I don't feel any pressure,

Alex (21:19.063)

Right.

Alex (21:28.066)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (21:32.717)

Right.

Brenda (21:34.791)

If you're gonna always tell me what to do and have all the answers, then why do I need to go read my Bible? Why do I need to pray? Why do I need to be discerning about what's around me or all the things? So I think there's just a proper pressure there. I think before we wrap up, Alex, let's just talk a little bit about is it ever appropriate to help somebody actually solve a problem?

Alex (21:39.436)

Right.

Alex (21:55.862)

Yeah, I think it's a good question to consider because there are going to be some situations where we may need to weigh in a little bit more heavily. And the first thing I think about is crisis situations if someone's in immediate danger with suicidal thoughts, domestic violence, severe health crisis, and urgent intervention is needed. Again, as we we said in previous podcasts, we don't want to make decisions for people, particularly women in abusive situations where choice has been taken away, but we may more heavily

and direct them. And then the situation where someone could be a harm to themselves or others, we actually have a duty then to warn and to take action, which is different than telling them what to do. It may actually be alerting other people that need to get involved in the situation, but crisis situations do need to be handled with more care and maybe a little bit more direct laying out of the options.

Brenda (22:54.981)

Yeah, definitely.

And I think it's always good in those situations again to engage others, wise others who might have more information to help guide and lead both you and the person that you're walking with. I think another place where it's appropriate is when somebody lacks basic knowledge. And you know there just are times that people don't know what the Bible says. They don't know what God's will and ways are. And we need to teach. We need to teach people biblical

Alex (23:21.004)

Right.

Brenda (23:26.899)

commands or principles or we need to at least show them where to go to find those you know that those basic principles of wisdom and I was just you know thinking this past week I had a woman come to me who was very very angry and embittered over a co-worker and you know we just talked about biblical principles of anger and we talked about biblical principles of bitterness and how to work with somebody who's destructive. What does the Bible say about

Alex (23:31.223)

Right.

Alex (23:48.59)

Mm.

Alex (23:56.77)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (23:56.771)

destructive people. So we spent a lot of time talking about the knowledge of God's Word and the wisdom of God's Word in dealing with difficult people. But her assignment then was to go home and to pray and to consider and think about how was she going to instruct her own heart concerning this co-worker and then what were some of the practical steps she was going to take in interacting with this co-worker. so it's just, again, there was a partnership there.

Alex (24:15.276)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (24:26.745)

Like we came together to discuss it and to talk about what God, some of those again, those principles and promises, commands, precepts, protections, all of that the Lord's given. But there's so much in her particular situation that she has to go back and wrestle with the Lord. Particularly, you know, these heart issues and at the end of the day, everything's a heart issue.

Alex (24:27.245)

Right.

Alex (24:41.538)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (24:45.869)

Yeah.

It is, yeah. I think what goes hand in hand with that is when somebody lacks basic knowledge and they're asking us for specific resources that we would provide, you know, referrals for specialists or shelters or financial aid or any information that they're specifically asking for, we may direct them to resources, which is really different than making a decision for them. It's actually just exposing them to whether it's knowledge or people and resources that they're unfamiliar

you're with.

Brenda (25:17.423)

Yeah. And then we might just say, you know, the final time is if somebody is really stuck in that analysis paralysis where they are, have been hijacked by fear and anxiety. They're overwhelmed. They can't make any decision. And so some, you know, some gentle guidance can help move them forward.

But I think again, we just, want to be cautious. And sometimes, you know, sometimes we do. I know there's been times in my life I just wanted somebody to lead me, take my hand and lead me to the next step.

Alex (25:47.532)

Yeah.

Brenda (25:51.097)

And I think there are situations where that is appropriate, but we don't want to be characterized by that, or we don't want to allow somebody else to be characterized by that. So we can help somebody look at their options. We can remind them that there's more than one way to handle a situation. We can do all the things we've said to remind them that God is for them, that even if they don't quote unquote make the right decision, if they make a faith-based decision, that that's gonna please the Lord. So there's a lot of just kind of coaxing and helping somebody

you know, move in the right direction. you know, Alex, I want to say one other thing just as we end this. One of kind of the differences I think of pastoral counseling and then discipleship counseling or discipleship is pastors don't have the time often. And, you know, mostly just the time and probably mental and physical energy to meet with every person, kind of like this idea of Moses and always be hearing people's problems and then fixing that problem. And I think a lot of times when we go to a pastor, we might be at this place where we need a very direct answer.

And so that can be really helpful. Like I think there is a time and a place for that. But I think what discipleship does or discipleship counseling does is it allows us to go deeper with people and go underneath what the problem is to maybe some of the other things that are involved with the problem, some of the heart issues, some of the other things that are touching on this problem to encourage more growth and change.

Alex (27:01.517)

Hmm.

Alex (27:14.688)

Yeah, I think that I really like that last point because it reminds us that this process of walking with people takes time.

And a quick fix is usually just a shortcut. even when someone's in that analysis paralysis, I think sometimes we need to be willing to come way up in the big picture and say, okay, what are you afraid of? And it gives such a great opportunity to reiterate the gospel, to ground them back in the gospel. So yeah, I really like that we have to be willing to recognize that

growth in our own life is slow and it's going to be slow in the people that we're walking with and as much as we would like to spare them the pain of some decisions that may seem unwise in the moment that we actually do have to let them make mistakes and we have to be willing to let them learn to to exercise those decision-making skills.

Brenda (28:21.499)

Well, we've been ending our last time in these podcasts just talking about our focus being on Jesus as people helpers and how Jesus is the better in every way. He's the better counselor in every single way. And you were talking about just this thought of time that it takes time and Jesus never runs out of time. He never runs out of time. And so he's not looking necessarily or primarily about

Alex (28:45.635)

Yeah.

Brenda (28:51.443)

the quick fixes to the problem. He goes after the heart. He's looking to make worshippers. He wants us to learn about his love for us and for us to respond by loving, trusting, and obeying him. And so, yeah, there's not a time issue there with him.

Alex (28:52.813)

Right.

Alex (29:09.484)

Yeah, it's really interesting to see how Jesus interacted with people and

He does a few times give these clear direct answers, but most of the times he's asking questions, he's telling stories, he's encouraging the listener to think and apply the lessons to their own life. And Brenda, that doesn't change as he moves towards the crucifixion. Like he, even as he has this sense that his time has come, he doesn't change his pace and all of a sudden say, okay, now, you know, here's what you got to learn right now.

you know he he he continues to

Brenda (29:45.585)

Hmm.

Alex (29:49.334)

keep that same pace and letting them discover and showing them through his own life and reiterating the same concepts. And I have to think that he does that because he knows as he told them, he's leaving the Holy Spirit with them, that the Holy Spirit will come and that the Holy Spirit is going to continue the work that he started in their hearts. And so we have to have that same trust that the Holy Spirit is going to do his job because I think what enabled Jesus to recognize that he was a non-Christian

a timeline is the same thing that we can recognize is that the spirit is there and at work in someone else's life.

Brenda (30:26.117)

Yeah, and I think the only other thing I would add to that is he knew the story would end well.

Alex (30:30.317)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (30:31.129)

And we can have that same confidence amidst all the hiccups and all the things that we don't get right now. For us, for those of us who call Jesus Lord and Savior, the story will end well. And that's a great confidence. So just to wrap up this episode, we just want to say that counseling isn't about fixing people. So don't say I can fix that or say it sparingly. It's about encouraging people to grow in their religion.

Alex (30:42.574)

Mm.

Alex (30:58.614)

Mmm.

Brenda (31:01.043)

with Christ and to learn to know and hear His voice and follow Him. you know, facilitating growth is a way that we can allow people to gain knowledge and tools for life, which is just wisdom and not just a list of solutions to their problems.