Season 10 Ep.1 / It’s All Up to Me!

Brenda (00:03.648)

Well, hello, Alex. How are you today? Good. It's good to be back on again recording. We always say this. think every season we go, my goodness, can you believe it? Season whatever. But I really feel that way today because this is season 10, which is pretty remarkable to God be the glory that, you know, we still have a platform after 10 seasons that we haven't been run off the podcast air, so to speak.

Alex (00:04.95)

Hello? I'm good?

Alex (00:17.036)

I know. I do too.

Alex (00:29.144)

Hahaha

Brenda (00:32.854)

But we're starting our 10th season and we've titled this season, Do As I Say and Not As I Do. And we'll get back to that in a minute. But one of the things we've said is that even though we record earlier than these podcasts are released, they are a little bit of a diary of our life. And it's nice to talk a little bit about what's going in our life because oftentimes they direct what we're gonna talk about or the examples that we're using.

Alex (00:40.182)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (00:50.594)

They are.

Brenda (00:59.538)

And so I know you've had some big things happen since our last season, and maybe you could share a few of those.

Alex (01:05.71)

Well, I've been listening to an older season and that's the first time I've ever done that. And so I don't like to listen, but because I'm going to teach a class from it, I'm listening. And it was fun to hear the catch up and you were announcing that KK was pregnant with her first baby. And so I feel like I have a milestone event finally. I've been in the empty nest season, but my daughter just got married on January the fourth. And so...

Brenda (01:21.686)

Hmm.

Alex (01:32.654)

The holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, end of the wedding all feels like a bit of a blur. And I've emerged the first week of February to realize that we're in a new year. Life really can go on, but we had a wonderful time. It's been a fun celebration. I got to refer back to the, which you're going to talk about the Shaun of the South.

Brenda (01:59.392)

Mm.

Alex (02:00.488)

anecdote that we used in our Bible study as I just saw this whole army of women come together and help make this wedding possible. And so it was just a really been a really fun season for our family.

Brenda (02:15.381)

That's so exciting.

Well, welcome to new life with, you know, the beloved in-laws is so fun and it really does take your family in a different direction. you know, as your children begin to marry and, with different joys and, the different obstacles that can come with that as well. So your daughter and her son-in-law are precious. And so we just look forward to hearing how they're going to fare in the future and how God's going to bless them. They both love Jesus and it's wonderful. to your point, it's been several months since we've met. so.

Alex (02:19.33)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (02:47.235)

And seeing I'm a person of so many words and stories, I'll try to limit what I want to share. But I will say some highlights. We went to Chicago to hear our son and daughter-in-law retake their one-year renewal vows. And that was really special because she's Catholic. And so they did it in the tradition of her Catholic faith, which was very special and very God-oriented and Christ-centered. And then I had really prayed for, I hint to this on the podcast often, and I've

Alex (02:49.548)

Hahahaha

Alex (03:01.324)

Hmm

Alex (03:06.605)

Mm.

Brenda (03:17.065)

really felt like I've been in a place where I could speak a lot about our family and how addiction ravaged our family for 12 years with one of my children's addiction issues. But this year, this last year, there's been a lot of healing in that area and so I prayed for a Christmas miracle that our whole family could be together and a lot of other people prayed for that miracle and the Lord just so sweetly orchestrated it and we had the most amazing Christmas with the entire family. So I just have to give God the glory for that. And then just

Just a few other things. My mother just celebrated her 85th birthday. I went down for that, but my mother has also recently been diagnosed with dementia.

And so we're entering into a really, just a really hard and sad season. And this is all very new for our family. We've not dealt with it. So I feel like we're on a learning curve, God's faithfulness to put us in touch with professionals. And I was at a breakfast and met an 87 year old man who was so precious, who had been married to his wife, I don't know, like 60 something years. And she had just died four months previous with Alzheimer's or dementia and he had cared for her. And so it's just so, so beautiful to see how

Alex (03:58.446)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (04:04.482)

Yeah.

Brenda (04:24.639)

the Lord just continues to move you along a path right where you are to put people in front of you to give you knowledge to give you wisdom to give you information one day at a time to lead you in whatever trouble you may be facing. And then the last thing I just wanted to share

is that I got to go see Sean of the South, which you just alluded to. I'm sporting my merch from him. And he is really special to us. First of all, he's an Alabama, an Alabama boy, writing from Alabama, which that's where I hail from and where you are currently. I was really shocked. He's a writer, a blogger, he's written books, he has a daily blog, but I didn't realize he was an accomplished musician. And he played the guitar, the fiddle, the banjo, the piano, and he sang.

Alex (04:42.831)

Okay, okay.

Alex (04:53.378)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (05:05.036)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (05:09.559)

Wow.

Brenda (05:10.007)

He told simple stories. His art is kind of this idea of just simple everyday storytelling. His ministry is really story and he tells the kind of stories that can either make you laugh or cry about his life or real people. And I know that the blog that you and I love. I think the best is called a lot more than sugar and spice, and maybe we can get Malia to attach that to our show notes because in there he talks about the week after his father died. His father died when he was 11 by his own hand.

Alex (05:17.442)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (05:30.232)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (05:39.95)

and

It's a blog about all the women who come to minister to him during that time. And the very last thing he says is, a world without women is suffering. And so you and I picked up on that. We did put that entire blog in our Bible study we wrote called Beginnings. And I think even as we start this season now, we don't want to be women who cause suffering or men who cause suffering. We want to be people who alleviate suffering.

Alex (05:54.126)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (06:09.868)

Hmm.

Brenda (06:12.947)

And sometimes our best intentions can get in the way and sometimes our sinful intentions can get in the way. And those are some of the things that we would like to talk about on this episode and this season.

Alex (06:26.592)

Yeah, one of the things that we realized as we were planning our podcasts for this year is that we have a lot of content. It's pretty teaching heavy and so our mission statement says we want to inspire, equip, and train and so this year we're going to kind of try to do a little bit more. I would call it more of the inspiration piece, more of the get out and do this, you really can do this kind of thing and so this season we kind of want to turn

Brenda (06:48.383)

Yeah.

Alex (06:56.496)

and talk about, as you said, do as I say, not as I do, because we realize there are a lot of things that you, a lot of mistakes that you and I have made. think what we have a combined 35 or 40 years of experience.

in counseling and we've made a lot of mistakes along the way. want to let you, we want to normalize those mistakes for you. We want you to feel like you're not the only one. And we also want you to learn from our mistakes, just like your parents used to say to you when you were little, like do as I say, not as I do. My mom said that a lot. And maybe you've used that phrase with your own children or maybe you heard it in your parenting, but usually that's when we're modeling bad behavior. And so we're saying that there's

Brenda (07:29.309)

You

Alex (07:41.438)

some things that we don't want you to follow in our steps. There's some mistakes that you don't have to make that we can hopefully prevent for you. If you've already made them, then we just want you to know you're not alone. If you're in good company, we all make them. And so we're going to highlight some behaviors, some beliefs that we don't want people to follow. And so

Brenda (07:52.71)

Right?

Alex (08:04.096)

I think most people probably struggle with these things. I don't think anything in this season is going to be a huge shock or surprise, but we hope that it removes an obstacle for people to go ahead and get out there and be involved in someone else's life.

Brenda (08:19.589)

Mm-hmm. Now, I love that. think it's Marty Solomon who taught me that God loves a moving arrow because he can direct it. And if you're just stuck, you know, in the arrow holder, whatever that's called, whatever that thing is called. And just the idea of chutzpah, right? Like, let's let's get moving forward and let God direct even if we make some mistakes along the way. So, Alex, what is the first?

Alex (08:24.782)

Don't ask me.

Hmm

Brenda (08:44.853)

Maybe do as we say, not as we do that we want to cover today.

Alex (08:49.836)

Today we're going to talk about the fact that we've made the mistake in believing that it's all up to me.

Brenda (08:56.245)

Mm-mm.

Alex (08:56.522)

And I think it's a really common mistake because we like progress, we like results and feeling like it's all that progress and those results are all up to you can be really unhealthy and for you and for the person you're trying to help and can be unhelpful. And so even though we know it's not true, I think we do feel this pressure that there's a lot on our shoulders. And to be honest, if we take ministering to others seriously,

then there is a pressure that goes along with it. But today we just want to talk about how if we really come to believe it's all on our shoulders, that we are we're gonna make a lot of mistakes. A lot of things are gonna come out of that. And the other thing I think before we get into the dangers, I just want to remind us of our grand narrative and remember that that we have this longing to have purpose, to make our mark on other people's lives.

As a creation longing, think God's put it in us. It's a good longing and I think out of that longing can be birthed, you know, in our sinful hearts that can get twisted like we've talked about into this desire for achievement that tells us it's all up to me, that we've got to do it all.

Brenda (10:11.572)

Yeah.

That's so good. And as we go through this, I really want our listeners to be thinking, not just in the context of counseling, maybe with friends or in a way of sitting down over coffee, but or somebody's come to you. But really, let's think about our marriages, our closest friendships or companionship, you know, our own parents, how we're relating to them. If we have children, how we're relating to our children. again, looking at the sphere of influence, because sometimes it's easy for me to say, well, I don't

really feel like I need to be in control or that it's all up to me with the people out there. But then I miss the fact that actually as a counselor in my own home or in my own immediate closest sphere, I can really get caught up with that. So we're always starting and trying to look at our closest relationships and where we have the most influence and then go out with concentric circles. So we'll keep that in mind as we go through this. But we wanted just to bring up some of the dangers or some of the cautions about what

Alex (10:52.428)

Yes.

Alex (10:57.4)

Yeah.

Brenda (11:12.607)

when this mindset enters in, creeps in, or becomes a belief system that begins to drive us. And I think the first thing it does, it just creates an unrealistic burden on us, the people helpers. And I just have to remind myself all the time, like Brenda, you are not that powerful, right? You are just not that powerful. And let's be honest, Alex, I know my own life. So if it's all up to me,

Alex (11:30.862)

That's right.

Brenda (11:39.157)

we're in trouble to begin with, right? It's like, my life is a testimony to that. If it's all up to me, this thing is going down in a shipwreck. And just acknowledging our limits, I think this comes down to, you know, knowing that God is God and He's unlimited and we're not.

Alex (11:40.514)

Right.

Alex (11:56.098)

Yeah, yeah. And I think that one of the reasons that, or there many reasons why this plays out in unhelpful ways for the other person, but it's gonna play out in an unhelpful way for us because if we carry this weight that it's all up to me, we're gonna experience burnout and exhaustion and frustration because no matter how hard we try, we're not gonna be able to force change in other people's lives.

Brenda (12:21.908)

you

Yeah, you're going to be hearing a lot throughout the series, me talking and bringing examples from the Exodus story because I am deep into Exodus right now. But as I was thinking about this particular idea, I was thinking about Moses having this unrealistic expectation, maybe of like how he or he was going to be, it was all up to him. And so what does he do? He goes out and he murders an Egyptian. And then he also strikes the rock. I just wonder at what level did he begin to feel a lot too much weight and

Alex (12:29.154)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (12:39.352)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (12:52.745)

too much responsibility on himself and then he became frustrated with his own ability and with the other people that he was ministering to as well. So I think it's... go ahead.

Alex (13:01.312)

Right, yeah. And I, yeah, I was gonna say that I think that becomes just the warning light for us if we're experiencing that frustration, then we kind of know like.

If I find myself easily frustrated with people that I love, feel committed to, I want to help, and I know I want the best for, then I usually have to not look at them and what's happening in their lives, but I have to look at my own heart and have to realize that I'm taking on too much responsibility and I'm beginning to push an agenda in their lives that makes me feel like it's all up to me.

Brenda (13:36.413)

Yep, no, I totally relate. Well, what's another danger that we need to be looking out for?

Alex (13:42.562)

Well, the second one I think is that it can lead to over control and co-dependence in the relationship. And that's a big buzzword. Codependence is a big buzzword. We're going to tease it out a little bit. First, if we believe it's up to us, we're going to start over-functioning and try to fix people instead of guiding them. like to talk about, somebody asked me one time as I gave examples of counseling, I was using the expression of, well, I sat with somebody last week who said this, or I sat with somebody last week who did this and somebody stopped me and

said, is that what you're saying for you counseling? And I said, yeah, but I like the expression that I sat with someone or walked with them in this because I like the picture that we're doing something together. It's a joint venture. And if I start to believe it's all up to me, then I'm,

Brenda (14:19.017)

Hmm.

Alex (14:32.736)

you know, I'm out front saying, come on, come on, come on, like you gotta do it, you gotta do it. And so it creates this over-functioning and that over-functioning in turn can create this dependence from the other person on me where they shouldn't be dependent on me for these things. They shouldn't be looking to me to say this is where we need to go. They should be developing that in their relationship with the Lord and their reliance on the Holy Spirit.

Brenda (14:35.092)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (14:55.997)

Mm-hmm

Yeah, and I think a good rule of thumb is this quote that I've often heard is don't do for someone else what they could and should do for themselves or what God requires them to do for themselves. again, just going to the book of Exodus and we've talked, I think in our trauma series, we talked about compassion being the word connected to the word womb and mothering. And so we see the midwives and we see Pharaoh's daughter acting in real compassionate ways when the midwives

Alex (15:03.586)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (15:27.319)

and kill the Hebrew babies, right? And then Pharaoh takes this little Hebrew baby in, which all of these women were really doing good at a great cost to themselves.

I think the whole point is that who they are helping are truly the weak and the vulnerable. And when we're truly helping people who are weak and vulnerable and moving them along, we're doing something good. But what happens is, if somebody is not that weak and vulnerable person, in other words, they have more agency, more power, more ability, more responsibility, we end up hurting them.

And that's kind of the next point is like if we are overreaching, we can do unintentional harm. And I think about this, if you have, if you love somebody with substance abuse, you know, you can be very tempted to step in and to continue to rescue them or rescue them, you know, doing things for them that they should do for themselves. And really what it does rather than help them grow, feel the consequences of their choices, hopefully bring some motivation to

Alex (16:09.506)

Yeah.

Alex (16:27.136)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (16:33.399)

turn things around, it just kind of reinforces the...

their bad behavior, if you will. And it really just promotes immaturity and then shame as well because no adult needs to be treated like a child or an infant. They need to grow up. And then I think just in maybe a more professional example where I've seen this in my own life is it's really hard, as we've said, to see people in difficult situations, I think particularly where we see abusive women. And so one of the ways I've seen myself trying to control

Alex (16:42.316)

Yeah.

Alex (17:03.832)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (17:07.639)

and overreach is by sometimes encouraging a woman to move out of an abusive relationship more quickly than she's ready to, or even just almost taking that voice away from her because I am so motivated to want to do something, to want to be in control of the situation. Because in some ways I feel like it's all up to me. If I don't get her out of this, what's gonna happen to her, right?

Alex (17:16.718)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (17:23.544)

Yeah.

Alex (17:28.654)

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think motivation is an interesting thing to think about here because I think there can be really good motivations. Just like your example of a woman in an abusive situation. It's hard to see someone endure that much pain. It's hard to see the destruction that's happening in lives of people that we talk to. And so sometimes the motivation is good that we take on too much because we want the pain to stop.

We want relationships to be restored. We want to see someone walking with the Lord. And so we mobilize in order to try to make that happen. But sometimes our motivations are not always pure. There's pride, like I'm helping you and I need to do the best job I can and I need to see change or there's fear of failure because we're defining ourselves by the way that we're able to help people and we don't want to see another person fail.

Brenda (18:04.789)

Hmm.

Alex (18:23.31)

fear of seeing somebody hurt or fear of seeing our own hard work go to waste. So there are lots of ways that our motivations can be good or they can be positive or they can be negative and yet we can overreach in the ways that we're trying to help.

Brenda (18:29.311)

you

Brenda (18:40.405)

Yeah, I just think another way that we could look at maybe a danger of thinking is all up to us is the way it minimizes the other person's role and the Holy Spirit's role.

Alex (18:53.346)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we have to remember that we don't cause someone to grow. We can't do growth for somebody else. It's something they have to take ownership of. And if we take on that responsibility, then many times it can feel like for them, like, yeah, I'll just let you have it. I remember one of the hardest counseling conversations I ever had was having to look at someone and say,

you're showing up for counseling, but you're not doing anything. You're expecting me to do the work. And it's like when you leave here, you don't think about what we talked about. You don't come ready to talk about anything. You don't want to answer the questions that I'm asking. And I think you think that counseling is my work instead of our work together. And it was a difficult conversation.

But again, I could feel the frustration and I wanted to take charge and I knew I couldn't. And so we had to have the conversation. It's really, really hard thing to do.

Brenda (19:56.66)

Yeah, because...

There's a great risk and I think it feels riskier the closer the relationship. remember when my daughter was probably a junior or senior in high school and I was still trying to control way too much thinking I could control it. But I just I have this very vivid picture of being in my kitchen and putting my hands on my shoulders and saying I have been carrying the responsibility of your life on my shoulders and now I'm going to take that and put it on your shoulders and I touched her shoulders because as her mother I had my own responsibility.

Alex (20:06.506)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Alex (20:21.944)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (20:27.341)

Right.

Brenda (20:27.369)

in how I was parenting her, but I wasn't ultimately responsible for her decisions or the Holy Spirit's role in her life. And that is just a really hard thing to relinquish. And I think when we walk with people...

Alex (20:34.062)

you

Brenda (20:40.031)

goodness, we are going to end up frustrated and burned out in all those things if we minimize the role they have or the Holy Spirit's role. And our good friend Billy, who I worked with, would often say, you know, as we would meet with people, I can walk a journey with you, but I can't walk it for you. And I was kind of to your point with your counselee as well.

Alex (20:56.429)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (21:01.353)

And I think we just, we really have to realize that we are never ever the sole influence in a person's life. I'm talking to a sweet mama today who's just got a really upsetting situation with her daughter and it's almost as if she's looking at it as if she doesn't make the next right move, her daughter's just gonna be doomed and there's, her influence is so important.

Alex (21:09.902)

All right.

Brenda (21:27.657)

but this daughter has other resources and other people in her life and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God and all kinds of things. the factors that play into somebody's growth or time and their personal decisions, their spiritual maturity, their connection to community, like all kinds of things are influencing the person. It's not just us and thank God, it's not just us.

Alex (21:51.851)

Right, yeah.

Yeah, I'm glad you used a parenting example because I parenting is the place where I struggle with that the most thinking I had to be the only influence. And I think the other thing I have had to recognize is that sometimes people just are not ready to change. So I'm taking on all this responsibility and I'm not allowing space for them to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in his time. And one of the concepts that I've really had to learn

is this concept of laddering up.

You know, like we can't take someone from the bottom rung to the top overnight. Like we have to be able to just slowly build in the change. And so we challenge them. We don't push them to go three or four rungs. We just try to think about what might be just the next small step they can make on the path of growth and change. And that takes a lot of wisdom from the Holy Spirit. And even then sometimes people are not ready and we have to be willing to relinquish.

Brenda (22:50.631)

Right. Yeah, it's just, it is. so hard. It requires so much patience to walk with people. Something that I have, you know, have to confess that I've always been short on most of my life and I still struggle with, so I'm still so reliant on Jesus in that. Well, another danger is just that when we think it's all up to us, it replaces trusting God.

with pressure, that person's trusting God with pressure from us. So, you know, if it's all on us, where does the faith, trust, and surrender fit in for the other person? And, you know, oftentimes transformation comes in ways that we couldn't predict, we didn't imagine, you know, ways we can't control. So, I think just going back to what Paul told the church in Corinth is a great reminder in 1 Corinthians 3, 6, where he says, listen, it's, you know, there's, we have a

Alex (23:16.834)

Yeah.

Alex (23:31.832)

Yeah.

Brenda (23:43.524)

to plant seeds and to water them, to tend to them, to prune them, all of that. But we have to trust God for the growth because at the end of the day, we cause no growth in anyone. We cannot make somebody change. This is holy work. This is work from the Holy Spirit and that person's responsiveness to the Spirit's work in their life.

Alex (24:07.523)

Yeah.

So we want to end these podcasts just helping people think about how to counter this struggle with it's all up to me. Like how do we work against this tendency in our own heart to take on too much and thinking it's all on us. And just as we've, we've talked about through the podcast, we just want to remember that there's only one wonderful counselor and we are not that wonderful counselor. So that means we have to be humble and dependent and we have to

really self reflect of looking at our own lives and seeing the slow pace of growth that we've had and recognizing that that's even more proof that our own life is proof that it's not all up to us because we can't get it right either.

Brenda (24:54.837)

Exactly, exactly. We would be good to remember that more often. Self-reflection is really the best place to start. We have to start there with our own dependence and humility. One of the things that I know that we love to do is a little illustration called the circle of concern and circle of responsibility. And we use two concentric circles. I think we've talked about this before. The bigger circle are all the things in your concern and then the smaller circle within the bigger circle are your responsibilities. And I just think sometimes when you begin to feel really frustrated,

Alex (25:02.399)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (25:09.55)

yes.

you

Brenda (25:24.811)

agitated, impatient with people. It's really good just to sit down and say, okay, where is my responsibility in the life of this person? That's where I need to be faithful to do what God's called me to do, to step in, to step out, to speak, to not speak, whatever He's saying.

The bigger circle of concern is where I can pray and have a measure of influence as God leads, through service, through whatever means the Lord gives. And so I would really say that very often I have to use that particularly in my family relationships because all my children are grown, but I'm still a mom. And so it's really hard to not want to get out of my circle and go into their circle. And boy, it makes a mess.

Alex (25:55.256)

Yeah.

Alex (26:06.774)

Yes. So that's a good place to remember to check our motivations of like, we've talked a lot, Brenda, you know, about the fact that if our children are hurting, we hurt. And sometimes our motivation is we, we just want to alleviate the hurt as fast as we can. So we take it all on ourselves, but we can ask the Lord to check our heart motivations and redirect our desires. And remember that this is a, this is a partnership that we enter into with the other person and ultimately with him.

Brenda (26:18.292)

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Alex (26:36.688)

you

Brenda (26:37.373)

Yeah. And then growing in patience. mean, I think if you want to work with people, if you want to have an impact on people, then you just have to know that it's going to rub on your patience. And yet, love is patient.

Alex (26:48.593)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (26:53.813)

love is kind, you know, I think the first, I love that the first attribute God gives us in 1 Corinthians 13 of love is, it is patient. And probably because he knows that we're going to struggle so much with that, but God is patient. And so if God is not rushing somebody else's sanctification, and he's not, then why am I?

Alex (27:01.388)

Yes.

Alex (27:09.954)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brenda (27:13.253)

And I need to remember in my patients that I don't know everything there is to know about this person's heart and even how they need to change. I often like to say like, I don't know God's will for you. I his revealed will in his word, but as you're living out your life, I don't always know obviously the grays and the nuances, but it's my job and what I desire is to help you discover God's will. But I know in my life it's taken a lot of falling down and not necessarily following God's will for me to go,

Alex (27:35.223)

Right.

Brenda (27:42.977)

Yeah, maybe I'll go back and try it God's way now. The bumps and the bruises along the way that we have to have.

Alex (27:45.516)

Yeah.

Yeah. And he doesn't, he's not wasting those things. Like he's using all those things. So sometimes what we might determine is not growth or progress in someone's life is actually what's setting them up for, you know, the best growth and progress. So we have to remember that. And we just need to remember that God knows we're not adequate for this job.

Brenda (28:01.193)

Yes.

Brenda (28:04.542)

Yes.

Alex (28:13.314)

and he wants to partner with us anyway. And there's so much freedom in that and just recognizing our inadequacy. I hope more than anything, this whole series of podcasts just helps us feel a little bit more free to engage with other people because we recognize that we're all gonna make mistakes and we recognize that it doesn't all depend on us.

Brenda (28:25.503)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (28:34.882)

that we are not just helping other people, but God is also helping us to be more dependent on Him. So as much as we can be focused on what's going on in their lives, He's focused on what He's doing in our hearts. so ministry is for our growth as well as the other person.

Brenda (28:39.381)

Hmm.

Brenda (28:51.507)

Yeah, and I think we want to end each of these podcasts with really a good look at how is Jesus the better counselor in the way that we are not or cannot be.

Alex (28:58.798)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and so of course we know that He is the Alpha and the Omega. So He knows the beginning from the end. He, as you said just a minute ago, He sees all, He knows all of what's going on in a person's life. And I think the quote I used to say so often, I think it's Elizabeth Prentiss, excuse me, she says that the same God who is in charge of our justification is in charge of our sanctification. And so He's walking us through this process because He sees all and

He knows all.

Brenda (29:34.549)

That's right, the omnipotence of Jesus that he does know everything.

and we can place our trust in Him. And that is going to be the point of every single one of these episodes. And that is if we want to help other people trust Jesus, we have to entrust ourselves and those people to Jesus, who is the ultimate wonderful counselor and will be to them completely, fully and wholly and forever everything and anything we cannot be. And yet God uses us and that is just incredible.

Alex (29:55.19)

Mm-hmm.

Alex (30:05.208)

Mm.

Alex (30:08.94)

Mm-hmm.

Brenda (30:09.659)

So we're just going to wrap it up by saying the best counselor, the best friend, mentor, wife, co-worker, parent, are those that understand their guides and not saviors, and the people that trust Jesus to create space for growth in themselves and in other people without having to take on the burden of it.

Alex (30:18.38)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alex (30:32.27)

And so we hope this is a little bit of a

little nudge to get out there and be willing to make these mistakes. But also, we hope that you just have some good reminders about engaging other people. And next time we want to say do as we say not as we do. And we're going to talk about availability that our presence is powerful. But we want to ask the question like what happens when we think that our presence is paramount or supreme?

Brenda (31:05.673)

Hmm. Hmm. And Alex, as we, as I'm so fond of saying, that's all we have for today. See you, friend.

Alex (31:12.728)

Bye.